第23 Work abroad – Interview with Software Engineer Marco Bartolini Italy Ireland

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transcript

this is world welcome to this new episode of work in a Learning Abroad today we have Marco are you doing Michael oh good so Marco is going to tell us about his experience about working abroad as a professional in the unite company right here yeah and also he’s going to talk about his experience how him remove his challenges and some techniques of advice for forgetting I enjoy bobrucz so Marco maybe if you start to talk about what about yourself a little bit okay try to make it easier for everybody so a lot of you buddy my name is Marco originally from Italy I live here in Dublin along with my family the discompose body my girlfriend that she is called Federica and my son that is just 15 months old is Italian too at the moment I’m a software engineer happy to stay in Dublin don’t know for how long but for the moment Here I am great and Marco maybe if you what’s your motivation about being abroad okay so that’s a challenging question okay different reason so for sure the main driver at the moment at least for me and my girlfriend was actually the work I mean in Italy there’s no problem with software engineer or software company is working the problem is the salary is not that good and we live like couple of years behind and what is actually the Silicon Valley standards okay so most of the company relies on technologies that are let’s say five to ten years behind at least for big companies okay well there’s more than one or more challenging because they can move a different piece but still they’re not as challenging as the same one that you’re gonna find during downing or maybe San Francisco so that was the main driver along with the salary and when this idea was subdued to be in your mind okay it’s certainly my mind when I was like 23 24 years old and then is actually when I did my first move even before making my family out that’s why I’m to London when I was 24 years old I was challenging I was kind of young two years and a half experience in my sector so need to build like a good CV at the time and it was probably the worst time in Europe so 2008 was a huge crisis yeah a thousand nine in actual London in Europe so in London the work here offers actually went down from like thousands of jobs every day to a couple of hundreds okay yeah so was kind of kind of challenging to actually insert myself down here and how do you feel they live before living in Italy because this is this your first experience to be yeah London was the first one W was the second one ah two different experience to different time in my life when I was like 23 24 was can be easier I mean you know you’re looking to move yourself out of your family it’s gonna be the first time maybe first time you’re gonna find a new house moving maybe with France and it’s gonna help a lot so the first time was very easy your parents were okay they didn’t they fight at the beginning telling me oh you got a job in Italy why should move outside I says you know what I really don’t like what I’m doing now I just want to find new challenges I wanted to prove that I can do it and your English how was it uh was good but not good so you are a little bit of afraid that you Eureka was I was I mean uh when I was at school in Italy I used to study in English it was good like my school was focused on four languages so was English French in German but English was there it was the good one and we had 12 conversation with like mother tongue teachers Oh every week so I was kind of okay not the best one so I was afraid for it but not that much okay but to prove myself in the IIT that was a totally different sector I spent three months in a pub okay so yeah different colleagues from different countries this is how I come along with the concept that there is no English there is different English yes there are pop your substitute yeah my manager she was from way and then I had one colleague from Italy – another one from India another one from Tibet and other guys from Uganda so this is what you that actually there are different accents and everybody’s speaking the same language yeah so you will never love the Cambridge one how did you heard in the yeah the only thing that you can do is actually go try and do it and speak make mistakes go back and learn in time I say per meters actually one month to to feel that I could speak it even though I was tired yeah okay I am mark what about like you you came you went to London and then you you said you started to work in this pub and did you feel like oh I’m actually a professional why I’m doing here at the pub and and then I’m going back to uni where I didn’t you feel that’s kind of like going back that’s a really good question okay so there was a specific moment in my experience at the pub neither lost that much she lost just three months well I remember there was a moment I was actually cleaning the door at the very bottom on the floor yeah when I was thinking four months ago I was in a bank Institute you know with the Swede and whatever with my laptop everybody was asking me question about my job and I was very good at it and now I’m you know like crossing the medal just to make it shiny on a door in the kitchen i doing the right thing yeah that break that can break yeah spirit yeah yeah yeah but things are you’re trying so you can always go back to what you were doing before the problem is can you go farther so I was keep cleaning the door was keep cleaning dishes cooking the burgers in five four three months in meanwhile every morning lunchtime and after work so we’re studying to taking certifications okay there was keeping me like mind that yeah I’m doing this job just because at the moment I cannot have my job in the IT in English so yeah you need to fortify yourself keep thinking that you’re gonna make it and invest time and money that that’s the only thing or as we did the second time frame the job before going okay but I had a set of skill that was helping me I should if you move directly from Italy to Dublin in a big company last you got the certification applause you got this language the experience in the yeah yeah so you were I know that level the first time you just leap into the void you proved yourself don’t don’t break just make friends make an action keep living your life that’s the thing that is gonna keep you floating don’t despair don’t go back immediately yes otherwise it’s gonna be for yourself kind of affair when you go back you feel that it was a failure so I keep doing it if you can’t that’s it and what about any culture Chuck in the UK or Ireland I got to say that actually England was kind of easy because it’s a mash-up of lot of culture I was 24 years old so I was embracing easily all the changes because I didn’t add you know pick up seconds yeah I was like kind of really open-minded no not many experience be behind myself so I was like okay everything is given everything is gonna be okay I didn’t that strong opinion on something well when you are 34 35 like I am now you know my opinions you just have to make pretty constant so the impact is driven by your previous experience so even at work even with people you start to my yourself like thinking maybe I don’t like this thing maybe I don’t like playing evil and pits and stuff like that but the experience is gonna help you anyway because it’s gonna tell you okay I really don’t mind I’m gonna find what I’m looking for anyway and what advice will you provide for doing jump hunting yeah well it really depends what the strategy is the sector and if it’s the first time we’re going if you have a previous experience or not so make it shiny curriculum either not very long that’s the most important thing to three pages at most because actually the recruiter is gonna look just for the first page maybe the second if you’re kind of into spring there’s a lot of keywords if possible try to I like whatever is actually meaningful for the job you looking for so if you’re looking for the idea the pool that you want for three months in about nobody’s yeah so just go for the meaningful stuff that you’re looking for focus on a roll don’t focus on like I do I just want to work in the IT if you want to be a change in your search for a engineer if you to be an IT developer just go for a specific kind of language or software engineer in a specific role then just drop your messages says I I want to work in the IT because nobody’s gonna hire somebody that doesn’t know what he does well it doesn’t want in his life what about well there is a gap in salary and technologists glad you were saying in your late compared to maybe the UK and Ireland if you if someone is looking for jobs and packing I in Italy and they are Canada actually looks like good money maybe yeah I should try and but maybe it’s not that good money here what would you recommend for those Italians or even people who are around the world they don’t jump into the wagon without doing that that’s a good question so my case was actually kind of double of the salary when he moved on they looked very good too good shiny yes and I says is it really good as you were saying good it is not so I found a website that is called Glassdoor yeah okay I went on this website I start to compare like for the same position in this country what is gonna be the average salary for a software engineer and was my job and I actually got the offer by my company was actually even higher than the average okay so it wasn’t just good almost very good so I just did apply for it and I get shot a couple of time so I was telling to the little creature a couple of times like to repeat the amount because it looks looks too shiny for me yeah yeah and easily I’m getting like this amount of money this looks pretty good so yeah just taking on the website if you got friends ask them so if you got friends already proved in this country ask them the question tell them like do you think this is a good salary this is gonna enable me to have a good life in this country because maybe that’s still good money but you’re not gonna have the same life that you are back in the country were coming from now where’d this use case you might him there was a girl from Spain she came back to her own country because the difference between the rent and the salary was so bad here in Ireland that actually in Spain for lower salary she was saving more money yeah so make your eye and that’s one that’s a assad subject or something that we have talked over and over one is networking get to meet people kind of get to know what is out there right and the other is that the standards are different so you might not be seeing the same standards that you might be seeing in your country like housing the enterprise and the the state of the apartment it might be different but you have to take care about what actually what I’m getting here I mean proving my language is like you said technologies so it’s important for you once you have arrived to Ireland this is the first time that you’ve been working in Ireland yeah yeah was the first time so how was that those first couple of months I thought that the first two months working in this company I was kind of shocking like I was used to you know just work for me stuff make it work if you didn’t work here the customer complaining first and then go back one in this company standards are very high so you need like Quality Assurance test unit tests before actually releasing everything then there is a feedback from the customer there are different environments before getting to your production so you’re gonna collect all the others and feedback before and if you eat production with something usually 99% of the time is working well back in Italy 50% of the time wasn’t okay and there is lots yeah there is it’s a big company so bureaucracy is kind of heavy and it’s kind of normal Morrissey management is working making it kind of easier and so even like being Liston wasn’t the thing that I was used to yep so usually for me was like you do what I’m gonna tell you yeah and he became like okay we’re gonna do something all together and if you had something to say about it just shout out and maybe we can do something about yes I was totally completely different approach I was very positive for me and for the people who who might be in their countries and they have a family they might be thinking like oh watch I got a family I got kids I’m not really seeing this happening even though I want to but I see steam in their minds when you have an advice birthday for them yeah I got what to think about when you guys your family as well okay coming with you at all I mean I’m not a let’s say I don’t know the answer I have my experience so don’t take it for like that yeah but at least for me my concept of family is like we are all equals so if I want to move and I’m gonna move abroad my girlfriend or your wife or your children partner yeah us to agree on it okay you’re gonna move just because you want and everybody is to follow because if you’re rapping and everybody in your family is not something that’s gonna break sooner or later Ana’s gonna come back to you so if it’s a move that you want to do everybody is to agree on that thing so gather around the table talk about it let’s see the pros and cons and if it’s ported if there is a chance even for your girlfriend to move abroad for some reason and it was like for my girlfriend yes do the move okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and your kid your your your kids or kids are here as well yeah my my kid is like 15 months years or 15 months old and I was born in Ireland is Italian because I can get the seasons okay so you yourse tell you later how is the experience in school yeah and for those people who are looking for a job and they might get an offer they will see the salary and do you have any advice for for like asking for more money or actually benefits stock or PTO I would say it depends on the company it depends on what you find about that company on the depends what you find about the offer that they may compare to the country where you are okay so asking is for free always and usually for bigger companies HR is separated from your manager so you can always ask for more the body’s gonna tell you no we cannot do that they may be will okay let’s see what we can do about it or they’re gonna tell like you know what we just got the doll fur and we cannot increase again at least sometimes people are scared and they thin like I if I actually ask for much money I will lose this offer and that’s not the case that’s my tip about one thing if somebody is calling you back for an offer and the salary is a certain amount they are calling back you because they are interested in you so you deserve that money don’t think that you don’t deserve that money that’s important so the first time they told me you can get the double of the salary that you’re getting in Italy my first thought was actually I really deserved that money it looks too much for me it’s like even the benefits because the guys keep telling me yeah that’s the salary then you got that that and that this are we joking like do they really deserve that money and yeah yeah you are like if they’re calling you back they’re asking and keep asking interviewing you and it was like for me it was like six seven interviews if they’re keep calling you you value the monies yep so don’t even think that you don’t value that for this country in this company does money or your price so yeah you can ask for more don’t worry and to culture shock and maybe about how businesses are being done here in Ireland compared to Italy do you find yourself kind of switching the way that you negotiate salary or just to business as well I would say sometimes some cultures are more direct I mean how they say this stuff I mean sometimes they’re indirect so would you say I would say that actually England Ireland experience was actually really direct like before you even apply for the job you already know what’s the range of the salary and then they tell you based on experience so you know you’re gonna learn between something like 50 and 80 thousand there is like thirty thousand euro difference in between or pound spend in your country but they are gone they already telling you was the minimal and maximum right depending on your experience why like Mike three they usually tell you the kind of contract they never tell about money and then you get to the interview and then you have maybe second interview and at the end they presented the offer but maybe you’re not gonna like it so you already spent like times to go to the interview they don’t want to disclose the offer because they’re gonna lose maybe participant well maybe you got there you got interested into the thing maybe you’re able to accept for less money so it’s totally different thing I rather prefer actually the Ireland UK approach you got to say no not working for an American company the approach is more like California approach okay so it’s more direct more clear more transparent and once that you are in the company – have you found any kind of cultural difference as well you mean social yeah in the way that you can talk to your boss or you can talk to the police absolutely like I remember making today I was talking to my boss and it was always like yeah we will see about it and usually like words never match my expectation and actions taken by my manager or the company itself it was always like yeah we know we have a problem or we know there is a problem and probably you’re the colors so they were always pointing fingers claiming responsibility he’s asking for more time on the role and spend more time and forth to solve every problem and then when you need an issue you solve it you go back to work and you eat the same issue came next week or something like that even though you’re trying to apply like agile methodologies and stuff like that they will never receive properly thing they never see investing in stuff that is not actually the product is something that isn’t gonna bring you back money yeah so it was different here at least in that company we played a lot of Silicon Valley here so the way of dealing with business dealing with the customer thinking that employees are actually values for the company and if they’re happy your IP product is better it’s a different totall way to see actually the way and I’m sure like you do have any last advice for the people who are married who might be thinking about coming to a brawl so there may be like well maybe they it seems to be fine they it seems to be doing great yeah I would say if you’re thinking about it don’t postpone it just do it cuz life is short you’re gonna find yourself already in your bed and you can look back and say what if and you’ve never done it so just do it just try it’s like it’s an experience you will never like leave you let’s say depressed like what you’re gonna bring back is gonna be money experience skills even though you fail so it’s gonna be a growing process anyway so just do it if you can if you don’t have to leave behind like see families or whatever if you get the chance do it great well thank you so much Marco and not sure if there’s a way for the people to contact you yeah no problem they they can search for me on Facebook so Marco Bertolini if they want or they can write me an email that is not very easy to spell but he is a XL e SS e at gmail.com great so if they want to write me for any questions don’t worry I’m very happy to answer great thank you I’m in my case you can email to Leonardo dot marking at p.m. dot and and keep posted we will have people in the perm that you see here that’s Marco that has been having this brilliant experience abroad thank you Mark you’re welcome [Music]

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